When they X your cue bid
1c-1s-2s-2nt( game or slam try)-3nt( ok for both try) -4c-4D -(X)-?
popular methods cater to holding A with either bidder (XX); but how do you handle a combined holding of kxx facing xx ( I e at least 2 quick losers ) and a holding of kxx facing qx ( i.e. Max 1 quick loser)?
me/ Essess decided to play pass to show xx and redouble to show queen asking pd to continue the cue -any better ideas?
now this auction came up and when Essess passed over X of my 4D ,I signed off in 4S in recent euro open
my rho holding AXX ,XXXXX ,JXXX,X did TWO funny things -1. He passed ( isn’t X clear cut ?) 2. he obediently led dia and on winning his partner could not figure out the club shift retaining his Dia entry ; before u laugh let me tell you that our opponents were China open who reached semifinal of the event while we crashed out of Heats !!
( other table laltu led his stiff of course and beat the vul game by two tricks )
an interesting afterthought- I did not alert the pass of Essess. Don’t the laws stipulate that bids above 3N should not be alerted? Or should I have privately alerted nevertheless?
An interesting question on this deal – I did not alert the pass of Essess as denying dia queen; don’t the laws stipulate that bids above 3N should not be alerted? Or should I volunteer the info privately to the player on lead ? Or both ?
My suggestion both when the doubler is on lead, and not:
Redouble from either side will confirm that this will be the most critical suit, and requests clarity from partner, about his honor-holding in the suit. This request will be made whenever two losers in the suit are inevitable in light of the double, and in the absence of supporting honors from partner. Redouble in general, will then not be made with singleton, and KQ(x). The key honor holdings to describe on the redouble, by the partner who did not make the cue-bid that got doubled are none, Q, QJ, and Ace. If cue-bidder is asked to make the description, the critical holdings are kx(x), KQ(x), A(x), AK(x).
Redouble may not be used if the doubler is on lead, and there is a possibility of discards, and so the negative inference of a better holding in the suit can only be assumed with this proviso.
The steps/mechanism to describe the critical holdings mentioned above may be devised by the individual partnerships.
Sorry, missed including singleton as a step by cue-bidder, perhaps after KQ, before A.
Sridhar, I think what you are playing is fine. Pass should show losers (xx) and redouble or an immediate cue bid should tell partner that do not worry we will not have 2 quick losers in the suit (could even have A and saving space for partner to cue next cheapest). Similarly when it comes back pass- pass to the cue bidder, a redouble or cue says that we will not have 2 quick losers so x, KQx, Ax etc type of hand. With vulnerable king, the cue bidder should sign off.
Essentially, if we give up on our fixation with a redouble showing first round control, things will be much simpler. In any case if opponent had not doubled, we would not have a way to know whether it is first round or second round – we will eventually do RKC and figure that out.
I like the line of thinking in Tewari’s suggestions, except these modifications:
Redouble immediately should be xx, asking partner to cue, past the agreed trump suit if necessary, even without extras, if 2 losers in the cue-suit is unlikely. Pass will show inadequate safety to cross the agreed trump suit, (with no worries in the cue-suit but with no control in any suit below the trump suit) or (with xx in the cue-suit, with or without controls below agreed suit). Cue bids will confirm no worry in the cue-suit.
Now, if it goes pass-pass, redouble by the cue-bidder will say no worries about the cue-suit, and asking partner to cue-bid below agreed trump suit.
This way, there will be more clarity on the strengths of the hands, and about missing controls in the other suits as well.
One more addition to the previous post:
If it goes Dbl, pass, pass, new cue below agreed trumps says control in that suit with INADEQUATE control (Kx) in the original cue-suit that was doubled.
Perhaps a good idea to summarize, the extended suggestion by Tewari:
Cases to consider for clarification through action by 2nd and 4th position after the Dbl
— Worried or not about 2 losers in the suit,
— further cue-bids to expose missing controls in other suits,
— these with and without extras to push to the next level.
2nd seat actions — Pass, Cue, or Redouble:
When not worried —
Cue the cheapest control below agreed suit if possible, with or w/o extras.
If no extras, and no control to cue below agreed suit, pass
With extras, cue the cheapest suit even if it means crossing the agreed suit.
When worried —
pass with no extras, and
redouble with extras.
4th seat actions — Redouble, Cue, Sign off:
After pass by 2nd seat:
When not worried —
redouble with extras, sign off w/o because both lack extras.
Now, if partner cue-bids below the agreed suit, it can be inferred that he had no extras
and that he was worried. In light of this, the 4th seat hand needs extras to investigate slam further.
When worried —
Sign-off with no extras
Cue-bid the cheapest control below agreed trumps only with extras. Do not cross the agreed trumps to cue.
The reason why partner has passed is either he too is worried, or he too lacks a control in a suit below.
After Redouble by 2nd seat:
When not worried:
Cue-bid below agreed suit if possible, but crossing the trump suit does not require extras for safety
because partner has promised extras, and so you are free to cue.
When worried:
Sign-off.
After cue-bid by 2nd seat:
Cue bid normally. Crossing the agreed suit shows extras.
I think the attempt to show extras is making this a bit complicated. If we just restrict it to showing control in the doubled cue suit, it will keep it simple. Most of the times, we will already have a good indication of strength. Like in this case opener hand is limited to a good 13-14 bal range. So other hand can decide when controls are established. Similarly, we also play serious/non-serious tries when embarking on cue bids and that also tends to slot the hand in some range.